Presidente Maduro en entrevista con Ignacio Ramonet evalúa con perspectiva crítica los retos del 2024

video Nicolás Maduro | Entrevista con Ignacio Ramonet

Ignacio Ramonet (IR ): Mr. President, good evening. Thank you very much for accepting this invitation to this interview, which is already like number seven or eight that we have done as the first interview of the year.

President Nicolás Maduro (NM): Well, this interview is very good because it always serves as a reflective balance of all these difficult years, full of efforts, sacrifices. It serves as a balance sheet, and also as a perspective for the future. So always at your disposal, Ramonet.

 “We have solved the Canserbero enigma”

IR: Thank you very much. This interview, in fact, has the objective of taking stock of the year a little. In particular, the balance sheet of the achievements, the victories, the advances that have occurred in Venezuela. And also if you could define some perspectives. We are going to see it throughout the interview. But, if you allow, first I would like to start with something that is a little outside our topic, but that has had a great impact, especially on the millions of young people who are admirers of the Venezuelan singer-rapper Canserbero. A few days ago we learned that the “Canserbero enigma” has been solved. It was thought that Canserbero had committed suicide, but the Venezuelan Prosecutor’s Office has revealed that he was, in fact, murdered. How could you comment on this information?

NM: Yes, it has truly been a scientific, professional work of reconstruction of the events, of the facts, which has led to a forceful, definitive conclusion, of who are the intellectual and material authors responsible for the murder of this young artist, of this Venezuelan creator who in such a short time of musical career as a composer had such a great impact on youth. And he still has it, and more than in his youth. Ramonet, he impressed me (…) We, Cilia and I, have grandsons and granddaughters of all ages, and our grandchildren are eight, nine, ten, twelve, thirteen years old, Fourteen, fifteen years old are connoisseurs and followers of the art, music, composition, and lyrics of Canserbero. I’m very surprised.

IR: Especially since he died about eight years ago, right?

NM: Nine years ago now. And it surprises me because I confess to you I am a musical man, I am more into salsa, rock, although I am aware of current trends (…) In the year 2023, I listened on Spotify and I have a very popular, popular playlist, very full of music of all kinds. But I, until maybe two years ago, didn’t know who Canserbero was… And I found out because my grandchildren explained it to me, and they told me song by song, we analyzed song by song. And from there an interest in the art of Canserbero was born in me. On some occasion I spoke with the attorney general, also an admirer of Canserbero’s art, and after putting together a set of elements that made up a solid hypothesis about what had happened… All the media and networks had tarnished Canserbero’s name, they had said that he was a murderer… Even after his death, the Public Ministry even accused him of murder.

IR: He was accused of having committed a homicide before his suicide.

NM: Yes, and then later they imposed the complete thesis of homicide, suicide, schizophrenia and madness. And despite that stain that was cast on him, unfair, brutal, despite that, what his name, his lyrics, his art did grow and Canserbero today is recognized in the world as, if not the main, one of the main rappers in the Spanish language. So the investigation was opened by the Public Ministry. I expressed my support, and gave the prosecutor as always, but in this particular case, all my support. He did all the investigations with the most advanced forensic science, criminology. And the results have been overwhelming. Justice has been done, the name of a young noble Venezuelan creator has been vindicated, and I would say what he has done is growing now.

I spoke with her relatives the day Attorney General Tarek William Saab gave the results, with the videos of the confession of the murderer and the murderer, of the two murderers, and I spoke with her family, and her family felt relieved. His father Cheo, his sisters, his nieces. I gave them a hug over the phone. And I told them, well, he is a strong spirit, wherever Canserbero is he is a very strong spirit. And now his name will increase among the youth of Venezuela, Latin America, the Caribbean, and much beyond. So justice has been done, which speaks very well of the Public Ministry of Venezuela.

“We have greatly energized foreign policy”

IR: This has been one of the achievements of these last days of the year 2023, but as we said there have been others. 2023 was a symbolic year because it was the tenth year of your Government. In particular I would like to emphasize some international contacts that you have had, some trips abroad, meetings. In particular several meetings with President Gustavo Petro of Colombia, who organized a ” Conference on Venezuela in Bogotá”; a meeting with President Lula, who has returned to power. Recently in Brazil, you were at the meeting that Lula organized on South America; other strategic trips, in particular to Turkey and Saudi Arabia, and above all the very important trip to China, your meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping. How are these contacts, these trips integrated into the traditional geopolitics of the diplomacy of the Bolivarian Revolution?

A New World Balance is Taking Place

NM: In the world there is already a new era. The era of the Western empires is already passing, definitely, and the last of the empires, Westerners, the American empire, is in a process of historical decline that is structural, it is definitive. The United States will always be a power if it remains united, if several independent states do not emerge from there. It is one of the possible, probable trends that are predicted within a few decades. It’s like the United Kingdom; Great Britain was a military, economic, commercial, naval super empire… And well, it ceased, fell, declined… But it is still a powerful, important country.

Today, a world of greater balance has emerged, as the Liberator Simón Bolívar dreamed of. Incidentally, we are in the Birthplace of our hero, of our father, the Liberator Simón Bolívar, and from very early in the 19th century, he spoke of the need to “build a universe of balance”, a “world of balance”. And that was when the Liberator conceived the strategy that we could call today the “strategy of a multipolar world,” where our America, liberated by its sword, by its army, by our army, was one of the great blocks. In fact the Grand Colombia was founded in the Orinoco, on December 17, 1819. It was born as a power, an Atlantic, Caribbean, Pacific, Amazonian, Andean power, which encompassed what we are today Venezuela, Colombia, Panama and part of Central America and Ecuador. It was born as a territorial, population, military, and economic power.

IR: Like another Brazil almost…

NM: Yes, practically, and also having two arms, one over the Caribbean Sea and the Atlantic, and the other over the Pacific, having the entire Andes Mountains, having a gigantic space over the Amazon.

And that power was called, as the Liberator attempted at the Congress of Panama in 1826, to constitute a powerful bloc of nations, a union of republics… Treason prevailed, imperial intrigue prevailed, and Bolívar’s project was stabbed, it was betrayed, it was sullied, it was forgotten… And then, from where a powerful bloc should have been born, there remained ten, fifteen, twenty “republiquitas”, we could say in quotes, with respect to all, but fifteen “republiquitas”, everyone on their own, everyone was dominated.

So the concept of the “balance of the universe”, of a “multipolar world” that was the great dream of the giant, of our Liberator, is seeing its emergence today. And we are attentive. Commander Hugo Chávez spoke of a “new world geopolitics”, and thus established it: Bolivarian peace diplomacy. Its crisscrossing axis is the construction of a new world geopolitics, a new axis of world power, and the insertion of Venezuela into that axis.

From Latin America in the first place, from South America, from the Caribbean and from Latin America and the Caribbean to the world. That is why, this year, we have greatly energized our foreign policy. We participate in the attempt that Lula has made to re-found Unasur, a very important one that is advancing step by step, not without threats or imperial conspiracies, so that those do not happen. We have participated in the consolidation of the Community of Latin American and Caribbean States this year, a solid Community of Latin American and Caribbean States (CELAC). We have participated in the Palenque Summit with the president of Mexico López Obrador, to talk about the entire issue of climate change, migration, development, independence. And we received the support of all of Central America and part of South America on the issue of sanctions, to demand the lifting of the sanctions.

“Our visit to China was monumental”

And at a global level we have consolidated our relationship this year to a great degree with Turkey, with India, with Russia, with China. Our visit to China was monumental. I have gone to China as chancellor six, seven times, accompanying Commander Chávez, and then as president I have also gone five, six times. And I tell you, the level of relations, agreements signed, and policies defined between President Xi Jinping, between China and Venezuela in this six-day visit, has no comparison, has no parallel. First, we elevate the relationship to a high-level strategic relationship “foolproof and for all times.”

IR: Is that the expression that appears in the document?

NM: Yes, that is the expression, it is a concept that, for the first time, China attributes to a relationship jointly, to a country in Latin America and the Caribbean. Which raises the whole level. So I would say that we are advancing in the midst of the imperial siege, in the midst of the permanent attack, we are advancing in weaving the new world.

Venezuela humbly, modestly, yes, with the greatness of Bolívar’s thought, with the greatness of Chávez ‘s new global geopolitics, we are persevering in the construction of a multipolar world, a world of truly free countries and peoples.

“They already tried to kill Alex Saab by order of Iván Duque”

IR: Mr. President, among the achievements of your Government, I would like to cite three recent ones. First: the Barbados Agreements in October, which have made it possible to establish an agreement with the extra-parliamentary opposition. Second: The referendum on Guyana Essequiba on December 3, which has been an enormous victory in terms of mobilization. And third, the recent release of diplomat Alex Saab.
On this last issue, on the other two, we will return later – I would like you to complete for us, because you have already made a statement about it, some details about how and how difficult the negotiation was to obtain the release of Alex Saab.

NM: First, as we have said: Alex Saab is a businessman of Colombian origin, who settled in Venezuela and began to develop a set of very important investments. At one point, in 2011, he joined the plans of which would be the Great Venezuela Housing Mission. Later, in the stage that it was my turn to direct, he became involved in social plans, but above all he began playing a very important, growing role when criminal sanctions arrived.

IR: Starting in 2016.

NM: Yes, 2016, 2017, 2018, because he became involved… I have started to think… First he is Colombian, he has Colombian blood. Secondly, he has Palestinian blood, that’s where that streak of rebellion comes from. And he began to work with great skill to overcome the sanctions that were being taken against Venezuela.

IR: On your own initiative? Out of patriotism?

NM: On my own initiative and also due to a set of policies that I implemented, calling on the private sectors so that, from capital, from private investment, we could move forward, given that all our bank accounts had been stolen, frozen, Ramonet. You have to see that a country freezes all our bank accounts, not only freezes them but steals all its money, more than 21 billion dollars, freezes our properties abroad, prohibits us from selling our products abroad to the world. They persecute our main industry, the oil industry, which made us lose, I always say it because there may be people who do not listen to it, it made us lose 99% of the country’s income, we went from 54,000 million dollars approximately, one year, to 700 million dollars the following year… And the manifest, direct objective of imperialism was to collapse our society and proceed to a violent change of government, what they call in their strategic manuals, a “regime change”. And that’s good, as Fidel said; Fidel always told us: “Crises create men,” “they create leadership.”

I would say that, in that crisis, a man emerged: Alex Saab, and he began with imports brought from his capital, he began to bring food, the CLAP boxes (Local Supply and Production Committee) in the difficult times of 2017, 2018. And that’s why they punished him and his entire family, his brothers, his sister, his father, his mother, they punished everyone. And then they start to persecute him… And they also start to persecute the companies where he, in Mexico and other countries, made the CLAP boxes, and threaten them with different sanctions.

When 2019 and especially 2020 arrived, he had been playing an important role in three key areas, especially in 2020, when the quarantine and the Covid pandemic arrived. One, to continue playing a very important role in guaranteeing the CLAP, at that time we were still not producing the CLAP in Venezuela, as we had to later, fortunately… Thanks to the efforts of thousands of agricultural producers, peasants, from the Venezuelan countryside. Today we are producing 85% of the food in Venezuela, an agricultural miracle achieved by who? By the workers, by the producers… But not at that time. We brought 90% of the CLAP boxes from abroad to serve 7 million families. And he was a key man in the articulation of those imports.

But also, given the blockade, we had the refinery, the four refineries in Venezuela stopped, we did not get a spare part, we could not buy it, if we got it, say, if we got this spare part in such a country, we did not have a bank account to pay for it, because of the sanctions… Then we made triangulations to resolve the issue and recover the four refineries in a miraculous and heroic way, thanks to the engineering and knowledge of the Venezuelan oil workers, and the support of our friends in the world, important friends in the world. And then Alex Saab was a man to start bringing fuel to Venezuela.

And furthermore, he had made the connections in the world to bring medicines to the most needy patients, and particularly the key medicines for the issue of the coronavirus pandemic. That’s when they kidnapped him.

IR: In Cape Verde.

NM: Yes, in Cape Verde. Two days before they had tried to kill him. That has never been said… Two days before, a group of criminals hired by Iván Duque from Colombia tried to kill Alex Saab in his house, in Caracas… He miraculously saved his own life. And then he, with the drive that carries him, because he is an enterprising man, of drive, of initiative, I would say reckless, I would tell you that Alex Saab has the temerity of a Che Guevara to face risks and dangers. He left, he was going to Iran. Why was he going to Iran? To guarantee gasoline for a year for Venezuela, 2020, 2021, while we recovered the refinery. Why was he going to Iran? To get triangulated medicines from Iran. And on the way they capture him, they kidnap him without any type of police order.

IR: Without a court order…

NM: No, there was no international arrest warrant in the first place. Secondly, he had the protection of a diplomatic passport, a diplomatic official of a legitimate government, recognized by the United Nations. When they kidnapped him, they violated the conventions that protect diplomatic immunity in the world, something very serious. And then, well, everything that is already known: the torture…

The first thing they tried – as he explained – in that month of July, in the middle of the quarantine, they asked him to, with a call, to stop the gasoline boats; that, with a call, to stop the shipments of medicines… There is a key medicine, Ramonet, which is Remdesivir, which had just emerged then as the great antiviral against the coronavirus. And they were desperate to stop it. With Remdesivir, when it arrived in Caracas, in July 2020 and until today, thousands of lives of very serious patients who were intubated throughout the country were saved. And they also wanted Alex Saab to stop the CLAP boxes with a call, so that there would be what?

Mortality due to lack of medicine, famine and zero gasoline, as we were almost… In fact, I can tell you that of the five ships that he hired – we paid him but he triangulated them – of the five gasoline ships that came only two ships were able to arrive in June 2020… Unforgettable! It was a party for Venezuela… The other three ships were stolen by the United States … Stolen! They took them to the United States … Pirates, privateers, thieves! Then came the whole stage of torture so that he would give validity to the infamies against us, to the lies that are still going around… Because garbage portals of the sewer, such as the Semana de Colombia sewer, which is a sewer of the Colombian drug trafficking oligarchy, Semana magazine still writes: “Maduro’s front man Alex.” I’ve never had a front man! I have never had a bank account abroad. I have never had companies or properties, nor do I want to have them in my life, ever… My relationships with national and international businessmen have been and are work relationships for the country; and it was so much so that imperialism could never show, in three and a half years of having him kidnapped, it could never show a single false piece of evidence, a false paper about the supposed front men, dirty deals and all the rot that they invent in the sewer of their justice and in the sewer of their media.

So we never leave anyone behind, we never abandon anyone… Ever! We were always, we were at the side of his family, to his wife Camila who was a housewife, from a housewife she became a leader of a powerful movement, the Free Alex Saab movement; we were at the side of his sons, of his daughters, of his entire family, next to his family; in a loving way… In a special way Cilia who practically talked every week with Camilla, we had information here, there. And as I told Alex when he got out of the car and I waited for him there at the golden door of the Miraflores Palace: “Alex, I knew that this day you were going to arrive. And it came.” A miracle? A miracle like only revolutionaries, who are firm and who confront the empire with the truth, can do. A miracle.

IR: It was a beautiful victory, President. Throughout the world, many people were happy about that release, because they had campaigned to denounce all the falsehoods that were said about Alex Saab.

NM: Ramonet, I can’t say… but I received words of congratulations from people you can’t even imagine, who are surely seeing this, from the world, you can’t even imagine. People who sent me congratulations. From people in the United States of America. I’m not going to say names of great world artists… Some of them I don’t even know. And I have received messages from here, messages from there. Saying: this is how you treat an innocent man. We made an exchange that was worked on, as José Martí said: “It had to be done in silence.” With the prudence of the case, with the diplomacy of the case and we managed to miraculously free an innocent man. And in the exchange we handed over a group of convicted and confessed terrorists who had committed crimes and crimes in the country, convicted and confessed. It was the price we paid for the kidnapping. For the freedom of the kidnapped. And I think it was well worth it.

“We are building a new diversified economic model that gives us absolute independence from the entire world”

IR: Mr. President, continuing with the balance of the year: you defined eight very important lines of work for 2023. And among them the guidelines of the economy. I would like to ask you, what assessment do you make of that approach? What are the main achievements achieved in these eight lines of work?

NM: Look, I think that 2023 is a step forward too. We have ten quarters of continuous economic growth that began at the end of 2021. And we have managed to maintain growth in what I defined as the Bolivarian Economic Agenda, 18 engines, the 18 engines go step by step. These 18 engines need public policies, incentives, investment, national market, international market, good public management, good private management, good coordination.

I believe that we have achieved perfect coordination with all the country’s internal economic actors, and I believe that we have a very high dialogue and understanding with international economic actors who are arriving with new investments. It is a great achievement of these years, which will be consolidated in 2023. I have some important numbers here for you.

“ten consecutive quarters of growth”

IR: Growth in 2022 was 12% or so.

NM: Correct.

IR: In 2023, what growth has Venezuela had?

NM: The Central Bank has not given figures yet, although they tell me that ECLAC’s expectation of 4.5% could be met. There are ten consecutive quarters of growth. Still in the middle of the siege, and with our own investment.

A 5% growth in agricultural activity. We already have five consecutive quarters of agricultural activity growing more than five points, producing our food. And even exporting part of that food.
A sustained growth of 4% for ten quarters of all private manufacturing activity in the country, in a sustained, sustainable recovery, still has much room to grow the entire manufacturing sector.

An approximate growth of 4% in commercial activity until the third quarter. This fourth quarter that just ended now in December is a much higher level, there has been maddening commercial activity, with impressive strength.

Manufacturing production of food and beverages has grown above 1.6%. Well, here I have other information. I’m not going to overwhelm you with all the data.

IR: The trend is very positive…

NM: Yes, the trend is positive. In the fishing catch, in the recovery of the country’s fishing capacity, this year we have grown 25%. In the aquaculture activity, which is also an activity to which we have paid special attention, this year we grew by 20%. In the shrimp sector, which is an export sector, it grew 98% in the year 2023. An increase in industrial, agro-industrial production… And the arrival of important European, American, Chinese, Indian firms, etc., to invest in oil, gas and basic companies.

It means that, under the conditions established by our Constitution and our laws, we are advancing. Tax collection this year grew by 25.8%.  I would still say, according to the needs of the country and the expectations of what our social plans for recovery of the social welfare state have to be, tax collection still – although has grown quite a bit this year – it still has a lot of ground to gain, to guarantee income that allows us to improve the income of workers, social investment.

This year we are exceeding, up to the month of November, the collection of 5,181 million. It means that there is a set of very important elements, exchange rate stability, the definitive expiration of hyperinflation, we have stopped inflation as a structural evil of the hundred-year-old economy, and with the policies we are implementing we have serious prospects of improving that element, that variable in the months and years to come.

The credit portfolio increased by 91% compared to 2022. 91%. They are still modest figures that are around 1,400 million dollars. Venezuela would need four thousand, six thousand, eight billion dollars, the credit portfolio, or much more for investment; but it is something that has been achieved in a sustained, sustained manner.

IR: And all this in the context of a blockaded and besieged country. Which has more merit.

NM: That’s important to mention. Because the country, despite the progress we have made in the Barbados Agreements that we are going to talk about, and the conversations with the United States government, Venezuela today does not have accounts abroad, today it continues to be a persecuted and besieged country. And we have achieved all this with our own efforts, we alone, the Venezuelans, I can tell you, I tell you with pride. We have achieved all this with our own work. The private sector, small, medium, large, with some investment that has been coming from abroad, with public policies that are consensual, correct, relevant, fair, we have been achieving it with our own efforts, practically alone in this world.

IR: Without significant foreign investment?

NM: And saying as the great Ho Chi Minh said in Vietnam, thinking with our own head, walking with our own feet and building with our own hands, without depending on anyone. Do you know what one feels? That we are in a stage – and I tell you here in the house where Bolívar, the giant of America, was born – a stage where we are building a new diversified economic model that gives us absolute independence from the entire world, if necessary. Another element for your analysis, and for the analysis of all those in the world who read us here.

In the year 2023, Venezuela achieved the highest level of internal supply in its internal market in the last twenty-five years; 97% supply, mainly with its own production, and with the activity of the private economic sectors with complementary imports. With a very clear policy of what is imported, what is not imported, and protection of the national producer.

So I think we are taking certain steps. I always say, of course there is still a long way to go, especially to generate the wealth that we need to impact salaries, income. We have done our best to improve the comprehensive income of workers, the minimum comprehensive income of workers. And also completing a circuit with the Great Missions and Missions to protect public health, public education. With the construction of 500,000 homes per year to protect, with the CLAP and food programs, the people’s right to food. To put the human being at the center and protect them comprehensively while we recover the capacity, not only to generate and produce goods, products, services, but also liquid wealth, which is where our main effort is directed, and I know that we are going to achieve it. I’m sure of that.

We have reduced crime and dismantled the prison mafias

IR: Mr. President, there is another important achievement that you have not mentioned, which is security. For a long time one of the most systematic criticisms of the international media, to criticize the Bolivarian revolution, was to say that Venezuela was a very insecure, very dangerous country, that Caracas was a city dominated by crime, by delinquency. All that to some extent has changed. Today Caracas is an increasingly peaceful city, increasingly safer, the nights of Caracas have come back to life, tourists, travelers, and foreign correspondents confirm this. It is a huge achievement. Could you explain to us, how was this that seemed almost impossible achieved?

NM: Well, tremendous work has been done based on a concept that is the Peace Quadrants. The Peace Quadrants are a territorial concept. Today we have three thousand Quadrants of Peace.

IR: Throughout the country?

NM: Yes, throughout the country. The Peace Quadrant brings together who? It brings together the police and security forces, it brings together popular power, all popular power in its diversity, and it brings together all the institutions that have to do with security. The Peace Quadrants have provided a contribution to liberate the territories where there was the highest crime rate and to establish the operating rules of peace communities; quadrants of peace, communities of peace, I think that is one of the elements.

The other element has to do with intelligence work to dismantle the most dangerous criminal gangs, which are like gangs of a new generation, more armed, more organized gangs, with a lot of money. And we have done intelligence work and surgical strikes against the gangs in different cities and places in the country. For example: in Caracas, we remember the surgical strike that we gave to the gang of a neighborhood that was known in the world, which was Cota 905. That meant that, in Caracas, climates of coexistence, tranquility, and peace were established; because there was a hotbed there, Cota 905, it was an incredible hotbed, connected to the criminal gangs of Colombia in the time of Iván Duque. When we entered his lair, the first thing we found was about twenty Colombian paramilitaries on a mountain, training for a supposed “popular insurrection” in Caracas that they were going to lead; to tell you something.

And thirdly, this year 2023, progress was made in dismantling prison mafias, from very emblematic prisons in the center of the country, in the west, in the Andes, in the east, in the south of the country.
And I think it has been a very important blow to put an end to those prison mafias, to take away that center of crime. It is a policy, we call it Operation Gran Cacique Guaicaipuro, that will be maintained.

So, in that sense, I have great confidence that we are going to continue advancing in Venezuela as a territory of security, a territory of peace. And I always make a call to the people, this does not depend on one man, this depends on the joint effort that we make in the Peace Quadrants, it is the formula.

I have even told some Latin American governments. I’m not going to say names. I have told some Latin American governments: I would like to share with you the experience of the Peace Quadrants so that you can see that the fusion and union in the territory of the forces of order, the police forces and the social organization – in the case of Venezuela of popular power – gives great results.

“The president of Guyana is making fun of Lula, Celac and Caricom…”

IR: Mr. President, another important achievement, we mentioned before, is the recent referendum on Guyana Essequiba, which has been a success because the support has shown that the population has contributed to that demand. The success of that referendum forced the president of Guyana to sit down with you to talk directly about the fate of Guyana Essequiba. But since then there has been the sending of a British warship, which you have denounced. So, in these circumstances, how do you see the future of the negotiations with Guyana over Guyana Essequiba?

NM: At this moment, we could say, we are going through a moment of turbulence. Because Guyana acts not like the Cooperative Republic of Guyana, Guyana is acting like “British Guyana”, accepting that a warship goes to its coasts and from its coasts threatens Venezuela. Because that warship, since it left for its coasts, went with a voice of threat to Venezuela. And the impertinent, insolent statements of the British Foreign Ministry have been to reaffirm its threat to Venezuela. So they act, the president of Guyana acts like a president of a colonial British Guyana. He acts like a tied, subjugated country. I don’t accept his excuses, I don’t accept them! He tries to excuse himself, President Irfaan Ali, saying that Guyana will never threaten Venezuela. But it is not he who has uttered a word of threat, it is his owners, it is the old and declined and rotting ex-British empire that has sent a ship… They believe that Venezuela is the Venezuela in 1902, when they came with their ships to bombard Maracaibo, Puerto Cabello, La Guaira; when they came to massacre the people of Venezuela to impose the Arbitration Award of 1899, to collect the illegal, immoral debts of the 19th century. No, Venezuela today is not the one of 1902. The Venezuela that Cipriano Castro had. No no. It is a Venezuela that has military power to respond. And I say it with humility, with simplicity. Because I know the Venezuelan military very well. And I know that they give their lives to defend the sovereignty of this country, to protect this country. I have told you, we are a people of peace. For the good, everything. For the hard way, don’t try us. Don’t try us!

So what is the government in London doing and what is the President of Guyana doing? Make fun of President Lula, make fun of CELAC president Ralph Gonsalves, make fun of all the Caricom countries… That’s what they’ve done, make fun of them. They have mocked by threatening Venezuela with a military ship. They have mocked, and they have kicked the Argyle Agreement, they have kicked it.

Right now we are in a situation of turbulence. That we know how to face. Because we were not born on the day of cowards. Did you hear Ramonet? I was not born on the day of cowards, and I know very well as head of state and commander in chief of the Armed Forces what I have to do to defend the dignity of Venezuela. And here no one is going to come and threaten us with ships. Not today nor ever. This is not Venezuela in 1902. Make no mistake about Venezuela. Do not get it wrong!

 “With the US we have always sought dialogue, understanding, coexistence”

IR: Mr. President, after the Barbados Agreements, with the extra-parliamentary opposition, the Biden Administration was forced to suspend part of the sanctions against Venezuela What next steps do you foresee on the path to normalization of relations with the United States?

NM: First, two things must be said. First, I have promoted dialogue more than a thousand times with all sectors of the opposition. These dialogues with the extremist Guaidosista sector of the far-right opposition, as I call it, which is the spoiled and preferred opposition of the United States, is the pro-American, pitiyanqui opposition… Gathered in the Unitary Platform, the PUV. These dialogues I have promoted them and we support them permanently, always and without stopping. Those are the public dialogues that are known.

But in private dialogues I have met with all of them. In the year 2020, 2021. They spoke bad things about Guaidó to me. I told them: act, but they didn’t dare. And they take Guaidó out when he is already rotting garbage, Guaidó already smells very bad, and the gringos take him out of the country, they take him to Miami, multimillionaire as he is, he robbed half the world, he robbed the gringos, he robbed the opposition, robbed everyone; and they removed him because his discredit in that sector of the opposition was already unbearable. But we have always had dialogue with them. Even though sectors of that opposition sit down to talk but continue conspiring below, they always continue conspiring below. To seek to carry out a coup d’état in Venezuela, to seek to kill me, etc. But I believe in dialogue, permanently.

And secondly with the United States. Commander Chávez always sought and taught me to seek dialogue, understanding, and coexistence with the United States of America. And that’s what we’ve always done. What the commander did with Bill Clinton. With George W. Bush twice, even though Bush led a coup here on April 11-13, 2002. It is what he sought with Barack Obama, the first Obama term. The second Obama term was my turn, and that second Obama is the one who took the decree declaring Venezuela an “enemy of the United States. ” Face to face, face to face, Obama told me: “Maduro, that was a mistake, I’m going to correct it.” He didn’t correct it. I said, “Obama, the problem is not you, the problem is who comes after you, who can use that decree to threaten us, sanction us or invade us.” And that’s what happened.

With Donald Trump we had the relationship that everyone knows. He took 930 sanctions measures against Venezuela. He put a price on my head, on this little head you see here, they put a price on it. They tried to kill me in 2018, August 4, from the White House they tried to kill me. The day of the drone attack they were in the White House, today that truth is known, waiting for the result of the attack. They tried to invade us several times, they prepared mercenaries from Colombia. And yet we always sought dialogue and had ties of dialogue with the Trump government, so much so that we almost had an exchange ready to free Alex Saab in those final days of Trump, before the elections. So when Biden arrives, too. We have always wanted a dialogue. I hope it progresses. Hopefully.

 We have done our best to establish a new era in relations with the United States.

IR: Are there planned stages?

NM: There are common ideas, there is a route, an established roadmap. But we could not say, Ramonet, that the United States has lifted any sanctions on Venezuela. On the contrary, the sanctions are in force. What the United States has given are licenses as if Venezuela were a US colony. Some licenses, like the time of the Guipuzcoan Company, which had complete control of this country and gave export and import licenses, right? At that time of the so-called white Creoles, until the white Creoles got tired of the Guipuzcoan Company and declared the independence of all of America. More or less something like that. The model that the United States intends to apply is a Guipuzcoan Company-type model against Venezuela. Giving license.

But we are very firm. And we say it to all the governments of Latin America, CELAC and the world: Venezuela demands the complete and permanent lifting of all illegal, immoral and criminal sanctions on the economy and society. All. And that is going to be our goal. And we are not going to rest, we are going to persevere as we always do until we achieve it. And on the way there, seeing the magic ball, I think we are going to achieve it.

 “The BRICS are the future of humanity”

IR: President, today is January 1st and as of today, the BRICS, that organization formed by Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa that have constituted a kind of new power or counterpower, a bit in line with what you mentioned before, about this new multipolar geopolitics. As of today, six new countries have joined or about to join. In fact, five specifically are incorporated: Iran, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Egypt, and Ethiopia. Because Argentina was to join but the new president Javier Milei declined the invitation. On the one hand, I would like you to give us your opinion on the importance of the BRICS. And on the other hand, if Venezuela could join these new expanded BRICS?

NM: The BRICS are the future of humanity, the BRICS are already a definitive economic power, they have a powerful bank, I was at the bank’s headquarters in Shanghai with its president Dilma Rousseff, we have good relations, moving forward, with the Bank of the BRICS. I couldn’t go to the South Africa Summit due to a very bad ear infection that I had, unfortunately. At the South Africa Summit, Venezuela was accepted as a partner. And I hope that at the next Russia Summit with the favor of God, always God ahead, Venezuela joins the BRICS+ as a permanent member.

We bet on the BRICS as part of that new world, the new world balance, as part of the Bolivarian geopolitical concept of a world of balance, a world of equals. And also as part of the future of humanity for the development of BRICS investments in Venezuela, for the development of large markets for Venezuelan products, for the development of multi-diverse relationships culturally, politically, institutionally, socially. They are great civilizations, the Chinese, Russian, Indian civilization, our sister Brazil, our sister South Africa, Africa! The five countries are great civilizations, and we are part of the mestizo civilization of South America, the Caribbean, and Latin America. So the BRICS fill us with emotion.

The step that Javier Milei has taken for Argentina is to take Argentina to the 19th century. I have been saying it. I say it to the Argentines and I say it to the world, the Milei project is a construct that they have created to get their claws into Argentina, take it out of the multipolar world, turn it into a vassal of the imperial unipolar world, and turn it into a new colony from South America, destroy the State, destroy its economy, destroy its identity; and the step she has taken to remove Argentina from that power that is the BRICS is one of the most clumsy and imbecilic things that Milei has done against Argentina. Because by removing Argentina from the BRICS he is acting against the Argentinians, against the Argentine worker, against the Argentine businessman. There it is demonstrated what a retrograde colonial project of the 19th century it is, a project that has failed since its inception. And it demonstrates what Bolivarian diplomacy is, world geopolitics, the new geopolitics that, from Venezuela, with our revolution we are carrying forward.
So I aspire sooner rather than later to go from being a member of the BRICS to being a full member of the BRICS.

 “What is being committed in Palestine has no name…”

IR: Mr. President, the world today lives impacted by two major conflicts: Ukraine and Gaza. Regarding Ukraine, from the first moment, Venezuela decided not to take sides, defending a diplomatic project to search for a negotiated solution. And regarding the Palestine-Israel conflict, since 2009 Caracas broke relations with Israel. Do you consider that Venezuela, in both cases, made the right decision? On the other hand, how do you see the evolution of these two conflicts?

NM: I think that these two wars are linked by the big business of the American military apparatus and the Israeli military apparatus, which are totally linked. The big owners of the American military apparatus are Israel’s investors. And I think that these two wars have benefited the manufacturers of blood, death, weapons.

A war is a threat against Russia… For two entire decades, Russia has been warning against the threat of the strategic trap that they were trying to make from Ukraine, and from the countries of Eastern Europe, and simply the attitude of the fachos [slang for arrogant and presumptuous people], the Milei of Ukraine, the fachos of Ukraine, and the entire confessed neo-Nazi group… They are confessed neo-Nazis, the entire group that stormed power in Kiev in 2014, what they did was put themselves at the service of the provocation strategy against Russia.

All wars should be avoided, and in the case of the war in Ukraine a peace solution should be sought, but they don’t want to look for it, they want to bring Russia to its knees and humiliate it. And at this point, Russia is winning the war against all of NATO, despite all its military spending. In the midst of an enormous effort because it has been sanctioned economically, President Vladimir Putin said recently, Russia won the economic war against sanctions, and Russia today has better economic indicators of growth, economic stability, and more economic flourishing than all of Europe, even than the United States, today. Which says the great internal strength of Russia as a power nation, a productive nation, of its economy. And the West is simply obsessed with Russophobia, with the idea of ​​destroying Russia. There is only one solution: to sit down and talk with Putin, with Russia, on the basis of respect and reach an agreement that satisfies the need to guarantee security and peace for Russia and the entire region.

In the case of the conflict in Palestine, there is no longer any doubt. It is a genocide against a people. A genocide that is more than seventy-five years old is now open, brutal. And there is practically nothing and no one to raise a voice. The worst thing about the genocide is the complicit silence that exists with this genocide. The complicit silence of the European elites. The complicit activity of American elites manufacturing weapons and weapons and weapons to bomb and kill innocent Palestinians. More than twenty-one thousand Palestinians murdered. Eleven thousand of them children. It seems that they went after the children, to exterminate them. More than six thousand women.

In truth, what is being committed in Palestine has no name, it is only comparable to the Jewish Holocaust itself that the Jewish people experienced in the time of Hitler, in the Nazi era. International justice should work. But we simply do not see the face of international justice. A genocide in broad daylight broadcast live and direct on social networks. And nothing happens.

We will see… because all these genocides, all these brutalities may not be paid for now, perhaps they will be paid for in the future. And the world that is emerging will one day pass judgment on all those who promoted this genocide today. We are supportive. Especially during this entire Christmas season. We have been very aware of the boys and girls of Palestine. There where the baby Jesus was born, Christmas could not be saved, Ramonet, on December 24 all the places in Bethlehem closed. And the manger with the baby Jesus surrounded by tanks. That is the symbol: the massacred child, Herod again. But we will see what the future holds for us in the struggle and resistance of the Palestinian people, and the struggle and resistance of our people.

 “Whoever wins the battle in the networks, in the streets, in the media, and on the walls, will win the battle of ideas, as Fidel said, will win the political battle”

IR: Mr. President, to finish, I would like to ask you a question that is outside of politics. Of all the presidents I know, you are the one who has reflected the most on the relationship with the media. You have a very successful television program that you recently launched, Con Maduro plus, and it is very present on the networks. What is your relationship with the media like? What objectives are you looking for? And what relationship do you think a leader should have with the media today?

NM: It is vital to be able to communicate. And as you explain it yourself, I heard it from you: we are in a new communication era. You explain it yourself, I have taken it as an example and explained it to our people. There have been five great communication moments in humanity.

The first when humanity, homo sapiens, began to speak and communicate by word, in all the places where homo sapiens existed on planet Earth. The second, when Homo Sapiens began to write. And we began to communicate through writing. First of symbols and then of writing, in China, in India, etc. Third, when the printing press came and then it was possible to write, and books and newspapers came out and a newspaper could circulate from one continent to another. Fourth, a communication moment closely linked to the 20th century, the emergence of cinema, radio, and television, which were dominant practically throughout the 20th century and part of the 21st century. Our commander Chávez was a master in the management of traditional media and was the initiator of the Twitter era, a master with @chavezcandanga, in the first massive social network that was Twitter.

And we are in a fifth communicational moment, decisive, total, dominant: that of social networks. Today, what is Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and what is now called X to a lesser extent, and YouTube are the dominant social networks. Where people interact for hours, where people get informed, and where people communicate. Any human being in the most remote neighborhood of Caracas, of Shanghai, of Mexico City, of New York, at this hour that we are speaking, grabs their Instagram, grabs their TikTok, grabs their Facebook and sends a message. And many times it happens that that message goes viral. Sometimes it goes viral because of the content, the striking nature of what it releases. Other times it goes viral due to the algorithms of the owners themselves, of which they are invisible owners.

Before you knew who owned Venevisión here in Venezuela, who owned Televen, who owned I don’t know what radio station, the owner of “El Nacional”, Miguel Otero Silva, your friend. Now you don’t know where he lives, or who the owner is, who is the boss of TikTok in Venezuela. Where? Tell me. If you have a complaint, if TikTok did this, this and this against my family, where do I go? What law regulates it? That is a topic that must be studied.

That’s why I say we have to build a new system. I have told the people of Venezuela: we must build a new communication system, of permanent influence. And I have called it the RCMP system – Redes, Calles, Medios y Paredes [Networks, Streets, Media and Walls]. I’ll leave it there for you. And I make my effort, I make my contribution to keep a TikTok alive, active, attractive with things to maintain my other social networks, to maintain a different voice in those networks that transnational powers dominate, and to communicate on the networks. But we cannot stop there, we must continue communicating in the streets, and in traditional media, and on the walls, so that the walls also speak.

So it is a vital issue of the new era that must not be neglected, it is a priority. Whoever wins the battle in the networks, in the streets, in the media, and on the walls, will win the battle of ideas, as Fidel said, will win the political battle, will win the cultural war. It is decisive.

 “Chavismo has not defined who will be the presidential candidate” but “This year 2024, the Venezuelan people are going to teach the oligarchic right a new lesson”

IR: Mr. President, last question: 2024 is going to be an exceptional electoral year in the world. There are going to be elections in almost seventy-five countries. More than 4 billion people will be mobilized for the elections. Elections in the United States, in Russia, in India, in Ukraine. In Latin America there are going to be elections in Mexico, in Uruguay, in Panama, in El Salvador, in the Dominican Republic…and also in Venezuela. The opposition has already nominated about nine candidates, it seems. And analysts take your candidacy for granted… So I would like to ask you if you will, in fact, be Chavismo’s candidate for the 2024 presidential election?

NM: What I can tell you is that it is still premature. The year is just beginning. Only God knows… No Diosdado, God. Let’s hope that the electoral scenarios of the process that will take place this year are defined, and I am sure that, with God’s blessing, we will make the best decision.

I am president not because I have an ego, so that one day I said: “I want to be president.” Or because I have blue blood. Either my last name Maduro, blue blood, masters of the valley, or I was born to be president, like these political scumbags of the rancid oligarchy, who believe they are predestined to be presidents because they have blue blood and a last name. I am of the man in the street, in life I have found ways to defend an idea, a cause, a project. And on that path we met the greatest teacher, the teacher of teachers, unforgettable our beloved commander Hugo Chávez, our father, a father for all, who built a project, brought back Bolívar, Bolívar once again. He brought Bolívar to the 21st century and turned it into a project of Patria Grande, into a project of the country, he turned it into the conscience of the people.

We, or at least I, I say we because I am part of a collective, I am part of a historical cause. I am not me, I am part of a historical cause, I am part of a national project, I am part of a powerful popular movement of millions of men and women. I am part of a team: the Military Political High Command of the Revolution. I do not owe it to myself, I do not impose an ego, a predestination. No. Why was I president? Well, because Commander Chávez, at a given moment, had to make a decision due to a very serious illness… And so it was, and the people ratified it in heroic elections, April 14, 2013. And then I underwent the tests of a brutal war, and when 2017 arrived – remember the guarimbas, four months of violence, coup attempts, attempts to kill me – we brought the Constituent Assembly. Peace was imposed with the Constitution in hand. And then we similarly won the gubernatorial elections. We gave what is called in Venezuela a “pela” to the entire united opposition. They had been emboldened. I remember Ramos Allup (of the Democratic Action party): “Of twenty-three governorships we are going to win twenty-five,” said Ramos Allup.

Of twenty-three we won nineteen… The largest and most important states in the country… Popular miracle, Chavista miracle. And then on December 10 of that year we won the mayoralties, 80% of the mayoralties. And in 2018, when 2018 dawned, we held a debate in the Venezuelan popular movement, in popular power, in the Great Patriotic Pole, in the glorious United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV), and for them I went again candidate. Because they decided it, not because I said, “I am predestined”, “I have blue blood”, “I am cooler”, “I am indispensable”.

So here, in this decision about my eventual candidacy in 2024, neither personal ambitions, nor individualistic ambitions, nor ego, nor blue blood, will never come before the interests of the country. And when the decision is made, whatever it may be, we will all go out to conquer… What I can tell you today, what I can tell you today, is that this year 2024, the people of Venezuela are going to give a new lesson to the empires of the world, to the oligarchic right, to the extremists, who will not forget it for decades.

The popular movement, the popular forces and our entire country are preparing for a great electoral victory and for a new time of revolution to come with the Simón Bolívar National Plan, and with the historical projects that Commander Hugo Chávez left us. I can assure you of that: 2024 will be a year of great triumphs that will open the doors to great achievements in the future for 2025 and beyond.

IR: Well, thank you very much, Mr. President. I just wish you a happy new year, and the best for you, for your family, for your country. Hoping for a new date next year.

NM: Sure. See you later. Happy New Year.